I am in correspondence (kind of) with this Muslim student in Chicago. She sent me a video of Yosef Cohen, the Jew that converted to Islam (known now by 'Yusuf Khattab'), I responded with this -- http://groups.msn.com/WhyILeftIslam -- and she responded with this -- Occupation is a crime, from Israel to Palestine! -- and then I responded with this.
If you have the time, grab a map and help me find Palestine. If you knew your history, you'd know where that term comes from and to whom it was applied. And if you knew your Middle East history you'd know how the term came to usage and who coined it and why, but you don't, and like all other Muslims suffering from cognitive dissonance and an intellectual lack of honesty, you like to make "the Palestinian cause" out as if it has something to do with Islam, or something horribly false and insulting like that. There are Orthodox Jews today that stand against the State of Israel, and not on any moral basis, for morally they think that all the Arabs should leave Israel. Rather, they base their views on the fact that Israel is not a religious state and therefore not only do they view it as an insignificant harbinger of the Torah's Messianic expectations, they believe with all of their hearts and souls that it is pushing his coming away. I do not completely agree with them, but I have yet to find a Muslim so noble and honest as to be in utter rejection to the "State of Palestine" lie, which goes against the essentials of Islam in every fiber of its being. Muhammad didn't want states, i.e., countries, he envisioned a vast empire (Umma) where Sharia Law ran every aspect of life (as you probably know), this notion of "Palestine" that you hold in your head makes a mockery of his expectations and if any "real Muslims" had the guts to stand up and speak out for what was right, they would talk. What about the some twenty two Muslim majority countries of the Umma (or is it more?), surely those should be "Islamically" improved before "ya Falesteen" reaches the Islamic ideal? Yes? No? Please respond. Yaniv...
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- I've never won an argument against a fool, and have never lost an argument against a wise man.
2 comments:
First of all, thanks for posting.
Well, I thought about what you said, and I think I understand what you are saying and I respect it. The point that I was trying to tell the person, and you understood me, was that there are things beyond the politics here. What I mean is, both Jews and Muslims, theoretically, want to live as "true Jews" and "true Muslims."
Politics matter here only for that reason, because, for example, it is politics that tells Jews that they cannot go to the Dome of the Rock. Underneath that place is the site of the Temple, which is the holiest place for Jews, but the Mosque was built on top of it. The politics of "Palestine" get in the way of Jews being "true Jews" because Palestinians want that area to be part of a new country.
I read the reasons that you put for why G-d is not helping the Muslims recapture Palestine, and I understand that those would be the reasons from your perspective.
If I may; from my perspective, as a Jew, and if we really do believe in the same G-d and that there is only One, I am not so sure that He wants the Muslims to recapture, or to have, Palestine at all. I think, in His eyes, Palestine is really the Land of Israel, which He gave to the Bani Israel, as it says in the Torah (and in the Q'uran?). He gave the Land of Israel to the Jews for an important reason, and maybe He gave all of the other areas in the Umma to the Muslims; to me that is OK.
Maybe, and I say this with respect, it is not because the Muslims don't unite, or that they embrace nationalism, or that they kill innocent people, or that they fight for people and not for G-d, or that the starter of the PLO was Christian that they do not recapture Palestine, although those are good reasons. Rather, I think and believe that it is because G-d kept His promise that it should be a land for the Jews, so no matter what people do, it stays that way. It is part of His plan, and He has not changed it.
BUT, G-d will only give it to other people (G-d forbid) if the Jews do wrong. We see this happen many times in the Torah (Tawrat), when the Babylonian and Assyrians invaded Israel and destroyed the Temple in Jerusalem. G-d did not want those people to HAVE it, but it was more of a punishment to the Jews.
I think that G-d is sending the Jews an important message, that we are not following the Torah, and that He is sending the Muslims an important message too, that Israel belongs to the Jewish people.
What do you think?
I forgot to write this. In the Torah, when the Jews repent and come back to G-d, He brings them back into Israel. This happened a few times in the Torah. The Jewish belief, according to what the prophets in the Torah say (Isaiah, Ezekiel, Amos, etc...) is that there will be a time when the Jews come back -- this is called Redemption. Salaam and Shalom, Yaniv...
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