tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13751430.post115632078144078250..comments2023-10-16T08:00:03.188-07:00Comments on Jew is Beautiful: OrthodoxJewhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09499891102052725678noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13751430.post-1156446004143303202006-08-24T12:00:00.000-07:002006-08-24T12:00:00.000-07:00Also, how can two Muslims (by your definition of a...Also, how can two Muslims (by your definition of a Muslim) disagree on anything if they are both submitters? Two people who have reached submission should reach very similar conclusions on most things, if not all - is that wrong? If absolute truth drives both of them, their should not be much variation between their opinions.<BR/><BR/>Yaniv...OrthodoxJewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09499891102052725678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13751430.post-1156408197717365602006-08-24T01:29:00.000-07:002006-08-24T01:29:00.000-07:00You said, "even if on top of a previous Jewish one...You said, "even if on top of a previous Jewish one." The holiness of the site has not deminished due to its destruction - it's about the future and present, not the past. The mosque was built right in the exact spot where the people brought the animal sacrifices commanded in the Torah to be forgiven for sin. Yes, we have strong feelings regarding this because the mosque was built so clearly deliberately on the exact site of that spot. Its grandeur and luster is not an accident; everything about the mosque is to show greatness with the intent of dwarfing. Further, right in the center of that area is the Holy of Holies, the Kadosh Kedoshim, where Aaron (Moses' brother) the High Priest would go once a year on Yom Kippur to bring atonement for the entire Jewish people. He was the only person that was allowed to do it. We can't do these things properly until we can resume all of those religious requirements there so that leaves us in a state of wanting. If I have a house and you move into my kitchen while I'm gone do I have to get your permission to eat there? A rabbi I spoke to about this years ago actually said that the Temple should be built around the mosque and that it does not need to be destroyed. The question is, will the Arabs in the Middle East accept that? <BR/><BR/>By the way, the Temple, like the Dome of the Rock, is a proper name and should be capitalized; it's not a synagogue.OrthodoxJewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09499891102052725678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13751430.post-1156398011476856312006-08-23T22:40:00.000-07:002006-08-23T22:40:00.000-07:00I don't propose that it get bulldozed or anything ...I don't propose that it get bulldozed or anything like that, I propose that Muslims interested in peace, real Muslims, make a responsible and compassionate suggestion that it should be left to Jews. Afterall, it's a mosque, that's it, not a major religious structure, like the Q'aba. There doesn't need to be a mosque in the heart of Jerusalem anymore than there needs to be a Jewish settlment in Ramallah. You can say, "But Muhammad ascended to Heaven from Jerusalem," and even though I don't believe that he did, I can respond by saying that G-d gave us the entire Land of Israel, including Ramallah (see the Torah), so we should be able to settle there. You believe that Muhammad ascended to Heaven from Jerusalem, we believe that G-d gave us all of Israel, yet it is only the Jews that have had to make the concessions - that doesn't seem fair to me. One occupation ended but the other continues and occupations are never just. Usually they aren't legal either, in the books, but apparently this occupation is legal and nobody ever thinks about the injustice that it has been. <BR/><BR/>I was referring to Wafa Sultan metaphorically; there are many "Jewish Wafa Sultans" in the Israeli Knesset, why do we have to tolerate opinions damaging to our well-being when Muslims excommunicate Wafa Sultan the second she's brought a grievance against Islam? <BR/><BR/>Slightly related, are there any pro-Israel Muslims that you accept?<BR/><BR/>I believe that the Mashiach will make it better, but it will come with the full restoration of Israel's (the peoples') sovereignty over her holy sites. I think Muslims will be able to pray there, for sure (remember 1 Kings 8:41-43), but they will have to make the concession that Jerusalem and the Temple are Jewish, i.e., not a Muslim site in the sense that Muslims must control it. Think about it, Muslims can still believe that Muhammad ascended to Heaven from Jerusalem and pray there freely while it is under Jewish control. We have every reason to believe that the Mashiach will allow (peace-loving) Muslims total freedom to pray in the Temple.<BR/><BR/>What do you think?<BR/><BR/>Peace, Yaniv...OrthodoxJewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09499891102052725678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13751430.post-1156359041589122352006-08-23T11:50:00.000-07:002006-08-23T11:50:00.000-07:00It's like my heart wants to beat but a box has bee...It's like my heart wants to beat but a box has been placed around it not allowing it to swell. I can't feel fully complete, like I'm half a person, until we have the rights to our holiest site - it's the source of a lot of angst for believing Jews. Muslims don't know how that feels at all; they can to go Mecca without interference at all - for you guys it's like your Temple is standing and uncontestedly in your hands - that must be an incredible feeling - Jews don't know that feeling. We really DON'T have religious freedom in our own land - it's a horrible feeling, and your co-religionists are directly involved. We can go to the Wall, sure, but that's the area that we have been allowed to visit, and the Wall is just the outermost wall surrounding the area inside, which is the area of importance. We have Israeli politicians, diplomats, who are forced (and some want) to negotiate with Arab heads of state and international politicians as to the proper set up of the Israeli state and some just care about themselves. The Jewish and Muslim thresholds for injustice are much different; Jews tolerate (unfortunately) this horrible scenario and are much more adept at dealing with injustice, but Muslims can't even tolerate listening to Wafa Sultan. My friend, there are many Wafa Sultans in the Knesset.OrthodoxJewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09499891102052725678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13751430.post-1156358080650282162006-08-23T11:34:00.000-07:002006-08-23T11:34:00.000-07:00Shalom aleychem and assalamu alaykum, Thanks for w...Shalom aleychem and assalamu alaykum, <BR/><BR/>Thanks for writing.<BR/><BR/>OK, check out this quote, "At this hallowed site, known in Arabic as Haram al Sharif, the 9th Caliph, Abd al-Malik, built the great Dome of the Rock between 687 and 691. Besides its association with the `Night Journey' of Muhammad, Jerusalem was also chosen as the site of this first great work of Islamic architecture for political reasons. For a brief period between 680 and 692 Mecca had become the capital of a rival caliphate established by Abd Allah ibn Zubayr who controlled most of Arabia and Iraq. Following the retreat of the Umayyad army from its siege of Mecca the construction of the Dome was undertaken in order to discourage pilgrimages to Mecca."<BR/><BR/>The internal stuff that Islam faces is not my business. However, the Dome of the Rock and the Al-Aqsa Mosque are like stakes that a person sticks into the ground which says "my land." The whole Jewish religion and all Messianic expectancies revolves around that very center of Jerusalem and has throughout Jewish history. Nothing can happen and Messianic Redemption cannot occur until the Temple is rebuilt; Jews believe that this will be the unifying event of the entire world under G-d (see 1 Kings 8:41-43). A political phase can be shown to have begun in the same years that Al-Aqsa Mosque and the Dome of the Rock were built on top of the Temple site; a phase where Jewish sites (and the most important Jewish site) are incorporated into Muslim land. Looking at contemporary politics, much is the same. Muslim politics in the Middle East in our generation (starting before it) has shifted towards new developments in the Middle East, primarily the establishment of the State of Israel. It's like, if a tree falls in the forest and nobody heard it, did it make a sound? Conflict was already going on in the Middle East but once Israel came onto the scene, i.e., the Jews, it took on a different "feel" because now Jews were involved in the state of affairs of their own sites. That Muslim politics claim Jerusalem as their own (through the presence of the two structures there) plays into Israeli-Arab politics through the claim that Jerusalem is a holy site to Muslims as well. True, fine, but to Jews it is THE holiest site (comparable to the place Mecca has in Islam) and to Muslims it is the THIRD holiest site, and only due to internal politics in Islam. Even the third holiest site in JUDAISM is a point of contention for Jews to be able to visit; I believe it's the Cave of Machpela in Chevron, where Abraham and Sarah were buried. The overarching policies enacted by Muslim leaders in the Middle East, heads of Arab states, is to place the Palestinians in strategic positions in Israel. This is a very transparent tactic (for some) with the obvious goal of using Palestinian nationalism, i.e., human rights, as a goal for Muslim control over, yup, Israel. Just to show how closely these goals line up with Palestinian nationalism, Yasser Arafat has quoted numerous times that he will accept a united Jerusalem, and only an united Jerusalem, as the capital city of the State of Palestine. G-d forbid that ever occurred, I don't believe that he would be allowed to keep the Palestinian State with a united Jerusalem as its capital for too long; he would have completed his goal and "Palestine" would bleed into the rest of the Muslim Middle Eastern lands, the spoils divided, and Palestinian Arabs would (ideally) be restored to their state before the creation of the State of Israel, as citizens of either Jordan, or Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, etc... The region of Palestine was always a subsection under the rule of another Muslim ruler and Palestinian nationalism only began to formulate once the idea of Israeli nationalism began to stir. Anyway, that's why I call it a memorial to intolerance. Imagine the angst you would feel, as a Muslim, had Jews built a synagogue (which is not a major religious site) on top of the remains of the destroyed Q'aba and used it as a claim for political control of the area. You would be outraged, and rightfully so, and I would too as a Jew. THIS is the situation today and for a little more than one thousand years. The Jews have been very patient.OrthodoxJewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09499891102052725678noreply@blogger.com